Is there more to learn about God?

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crystalrainfall

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Do you ever feel like you have learned everything there is to know about the church, and you hunger to learn more about God and the Bible? In the Adventist churches, we are not allowed to ask questions, unless the answer is one of the 28 beliefs. Like what about the prophecies in the Old Testament that Adventists do not clearly understand? Learning more is not acceptable, because every question must be framed within the agreed upon belief set. If a person goes a little beyond what we believe, they backstep and explain it with acceptable Adventist answer. It seems that something is missing. Every Sabbath school lesson rehashes the same beliefs that I have understood for years and years, and nothing is new. God must be bigger, closer, there must be more of the Holy Spirit than a small church in which I don't feel loved or understood. I heard a sermon last week about how the Bible is not one of love, but of rebuke, reproof, exhortation. It left me feeling that God did not love us, until he explained that he meant God wants to warn us to shield us from not being ready when He comes. I think what I am missing is the feeling of being close to God, especially in the church. I do not feel that the people in the church care about me, or that I am important to them. I try to reconnect with old friends from Adventist college, and none of them seem very interested in remaining friends anymore. Do you ever feel like there is more for us to grasp than our set beliefs which are never changing?
 
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theMadJW said:
Does not mean a Triune God.
Here it is shown God (Jehovah, the Father) is sending His Power (the Holy Breath/Spirit) upon his son (not "God-the-Son').
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I see, so my friend you come from the view that the HS is a medium, and that is correct, but unlike natural mediums, some medium are administrated by active persons. There are two such mediums as examples of this in the Bible.

1Sa 28:7 ¶ Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

Here the Hebrew word "owb" is translated as a familiar spirit, is thought to mean by the SDA as a fallen angel , a personal being, pretending to be somebody else, thus deceiving humans. The Bible forbids the use of such mediums.

The other example of a medium administrated by a person is here

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Here the "ruwach el" is a strong term itself, is paralleled to the "breath of the Shadday"

Now the Shadday is the third person of the Godhead:

Mentioned first in the Oldest book of the Bible

Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Here are all three names of Divine Persons, the YHWH also called Jesus-YHWH
the Eloah (in the NT known as the Provider or Father) and the Shadday.

And in the Last book of the Bible

Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Here is the Hebrew words "YHWH Elohiym" and the "Shadday" and the Lamb again all three persons with the same titles as in the Book of Job, but with special emphasis on the Lamb.

In the final world with no sin, the medium function is no longer required, but the same three persons continue for ever.
The term "trinity" is a poor term to describe the Divine powers. Hence I agree we should not use a term invented by the traditions and precepts of men. Hope this helps. Shalom

Now you mention another topic "He DENIED it; so I believe him!

Too many topics ? not many SDA understand love and that there are three functions of love. Not one function of love as the English presents it. Shalom
 
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rob said:
I see, so my friend you come from the view that the HS is a medium, and that is correct, but unlike natural mediums, some medium are administrated by active persons. There are two such mediums as examples of this in the Bible.

1Sa 28:7 ¶ Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

Here the Hebrew word "owb" is translated as a familiar spirit, is thought to mean by the SDA as a fallen angel , a personal being, pretending to be somebody else, thus deceiving humans. The Bible forbids the use of such mediums.

The other example of a medium administrated by a person is here

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Here the "ruwach el" is a strong term itself, is paralleled to the "breath of the Shadday"

Now the Shadday is the third person of the Godhead:

Mentioned first in the Oldest book of the Bible

Job 40:1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Here are all three names of Divine Persons, the YHWH also called Jesus-YHWH
the Eloah (in the NT known as the Provider or Father) and the Shadday.

And in the Last book of the Bible

Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Here is the Hebrew words "YHWH Elohiym" and the "Shadday" and the Lamb again all three persons with the same titles as in the Book of Job, but with special emphasis on the Lamb.

In the final world with no sin, the medium function is no longer required, but the same three persons continue for ever.
The term "trinity" is a poor term to describe the Divine powers. Hence I agree we should not use a term invented by the traditions and precepts of men. Hope this helps. Shalom

Now you mention another topic "He DENIED it; so I believe him!

Too many topics ? not many SDA understand love and that there are three functions of love. Not one function of love as the English presents it. Shalom
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Explanation is flawed. There is no such a thing as a Trinity God in 3 Persons, and Godhead means "divine'.
 
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theMadJW said:
Explanation is flawed. There is no such a thing as a Trinity God in 3 Persons, and Godhead means "divine'.
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If you are not willing to defend or discuss your views with Scripture, I can't help you further, I have spent several months and hundreds of pages dealing with all kinds of theories, but you have to write your views with Bible verses, not human words as you are doing. For example I do not support "trinity" whatever that word means. So I am trying to support you where I can. As for your other remark I haven't got a clue to what you are saying. Try reading what I said and didn't say. Are you saying Elohiym is a cardinally one power? Like Jews claim? But that is funny because Jews in olden times support duality. So what exactly are you trying to say here, and with what Bible verses. In order to validate truth you require a minimum of two witnesses. The first witness MUST be Moses torah, so please quote such verses. And the second witness can be a testimony who is inspired such as the NT or EGW. And these are inspired because they agree to the first witness, ie Moses.

If you say divine persons do not exist, I gave you a Moses verse showing three divine persons by name. My second witness agrees calling these three divine powers. My question to you is WHY do three divine persons exist rather than one person alone? The answer is because of love as a function. You wrote the word "divine". There is no Hebrew word for "divine" and no Greek word for "divine"; hence this is an invented word by men, as "trinity" is, so you are not being consistent in your reply. Question: what is a personality in a person, and how is this different to a being? Can you answer that?

Are Adam and Eve, two persons and one being? What do I mean by that? When you are married in a Bible sense you become one being with two personalities of loving. Do you understand the Bible terms for love? There are two. And the reason for duality in Elohiym power.

Notice I answer more than you, it is unfair that you answer so little. Shalom
 
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The 'Holy Ghost' has no name, and is always seen as a glowing light. It is God POWER!
And, Christ identifying his Father (Jehovah) as God is good enough for ME- why not YOU?
(John 17:3)
 
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theMadJW said:
Explanation is flawed. There is no such a thing as a Trinity God in 3 Persons, and Godhead means "divine'.
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I John 5:7-12 NKJV "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

John 1:1-3 KJV "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The Holy Spirit is a person, not a power, not a force. John 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,". 1 Corinthians 2:10–11 "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God." In Nehemiah 9:20 “You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, Your manna You did not withhold from their mouth, And You gave them water for their thirst." But in Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone." If no one else apart from God is good according to Jesus, and these verses call the Spirit good, then we can only deduce that the Spirit is God. Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" and Exodus 25:8 "And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them."
 
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"'Very truly I tell you,'" Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was, I am'": this is John 8:58. Jesus knew this was the name of God. If you look at Exodus 3, we read, "Moses said to God, 'Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your father has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, 'Say to the Israelites, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:13,14). The Hebrew word for "I AM" is YHWH. It may be pronounced Yahweh or Jehovah, nobody knows for sure, because long ago the Hebrews stopped including the vowels in the pronunciation. Jesus knew He was claiming to be YHWH, and the Jews knew it too, which is why in verse 59, they picked up stones to try and stone Him.
 
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Chief said:
I John 5:7-12 NKJV "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

John 1:1-3 KJV "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The Holy Spirit is a person, not a power, not a force. John 15:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,". 1 Corinthians 2:10–11 "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God." In Nehemiah 9:20 “You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, Your manna You did not withhold from their mouth, And You gave them water for their thirst." But in Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone." If no one else apart from God is good according to Jesus, and these verses call the Spirit good, then we can only deduce that the Spirit is God. Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" and Exodus 25:8 "And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them."
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I John 5:7- And the spirit is the witness, because the spirit is the truth.
8- There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.

John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine.

And you other references don't apply to your 3 Gods.
 
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theMadJW said:
I John 5:7- And the spirit is the witness, because the spirit is the truth.
8- There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.

John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was divine.

And you other references don't apply to your 3 Gods.
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You certainly read to respond, and not to understand.

Let me ask a parallel question that may help shed light on this. When the bible says the husband and wife shall become one flesh (Mark 10:8), do their bodies suddenly fuse into one?
 
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theMadJW said:
The 'Holy Ghost' has no name, and is always seen as a glowing light. It is God POWER!
And, Christ identifying his Father (Jehovah) as God is good enough for ME- why not YOU?
(John 17:3)
Click to expand...
So perhaps you are a JW or a Jew who sees a cardinally one elohiym power.

Question: How does YHWH show faith to Israel, if YHWH is alone? Faith is trusting in a power outside of yourself and greater than yourself, so YHWH alone cannot demonstrate faith, so why expect us to do faith if the YHWH cannot do faith Himself?

Question: How does YHWH show love to Israel, if YHWH is alone? Love is trusting in a power outside of yourself and greater than yourself, so YHWH alone cannot demonstrate love, so why expect us to show love if the YHWH cannot do love Himself?

And forget unrequited love, such self love does not exist in the Scriptures, but two Hebrew words for love does. And to show both of these Hebrew words for love requires two personalities of love, so you have a big problem saying the YHWH is all alone?

How about a Bible verse from Moses torah?

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

How come there are TWO YHWH here? not one according to your view?

Now my view is better, and YHWH can show faith to the other YHWH and one YHWH can show love to the other YHWH.

By the way the word YHWH comes with two persons in the Name YH is an active being and WH is a secure being.

Shalom
 
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rob said:
So perhaps you are a JW or a Jew who sees a cardinally one elohiym power.

Question: How does YHWH show faith to Israel, if YHWH is alone? Faith is trusting in a power outside of yourself and greater than yourself, so YHWH alone cannot demonstrate faith, so why expect us to do faith if the YHWH cannot do faith Himself?

Question: How does YHWH show love to Israel, if YHWH is alone? Love is trusting in a power outside of yourself and greater than yourself, so YHWH alone cannot demonstrate love, so why expect us to show love if the YHWH cannot do love Himself?

And forget unrequited love, such self love does not exist in the Scriptures, but two Hebrew words for love does. And to show both of these Hebrew words for love requires two personalities of love, so you have a big problem saying the YHWH is all alone?

How about a Bible verse from Moses torah?

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

How come there are TWO YHWH here? not one according to your view?

Now my view is better, and YHWH can show faith to the other YHWH and one YHWH can show love to the other YHWH.

By the way the word YHWH comes with two persons in the Name YH is an active being and WH is a secure being.

Shalom
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Sorry- the first questions make no sense to me, Rob, and the one about Gen 19 is ridiculous- since you know Angels SPEAK for Jehovah (Yahovah) and are REFEREED to as angel in the account.
 
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theMadJW said:
Sorry- the first questions make no sense to me, Rob, and the one about Gen 19 is ridiculous- since you know Angels SPEAK for Jehovah (Yahovah) and are REFEREED to as angel in the account.
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An angel ? Are you sure ?
Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Where in this verse do you read "cherub" ? The only word I know meaning "angel" as a creature kind?

There are two YHWH beings mentioned here?

Ge 18:33 And the LORD went his way,

Ge 19:1 ¶ And there came two angels to Sodom at even (the word here is malak, messengers)
We assume they were cherub. OK?

Ge 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

So that makes two messengers and ONE YHWH.

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Now we have on earth two messengers and one YHWH with another YHWH in heaven coming to help out.

Now my friend try to discuss the verses, I am waiting for your Moses verses?

Shalom
 
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