What is wrong with God gives us access to the divine power house and all you have to do is ask and whatever you ask for is granted. So you learn to become driven by divine power, slowly and more confidently over time? In my two pennies we need to define what the term nature means? With me you are either powered by human power or divine power. The connection via the depraved nature is dead with connected to Jesus.
It sounds like in the early walk of faith we ask for a sword to use but as you mature you cling to the cross and die. its not what we get or do it is what He does in you. "Not I but Christ" look up the words
Le: "Dead men have no propensities. God has given you His Son and He has no propensities to sin.
Rob” You are saying in Jesus we have everything at once, and all our propensities are all dead immediately. I do not find this the case in my Bible verses experience. Can you outline some OT and NT verses that suggest your experiences?
Can't come up with any just now but God says "You are dead" Dead men have no propensities. You may have them but God says to reckon that you don't. It's and exercise of faith. Believe God's word not your thoughts and feelings.
So you are saying we begin as a babe declared sinless and without propensities and we grow in Jesus learning how to become sinless by faith, learning what is already given to you by faith? Is this some like your experience?
When Jesus walked out of the tomb he was a new creature. It is the reality of the symbolism of baptism. You are dead to sin and alive to God. You don't learn to become sinless. You simply listen and obey, always doing those things that please the Father 1 John 3:9
Le:"But that does not negate the Gift that is given.
Rob” I see. So how does one obtain this grand gift ? How would I know I have experienced this gift, if it is given to me all at once? How does God know I have truly received the grand gift, if there is no evidence of me accepting His great gift?
The word is true do you believe it? If so the just live by believing. It seems like you're making it a work. When you come to believe the word 1 John 3:9 that Christians don't disobey because the Son lives in them, you will have the gift, regardless of how you feel.
A simple prayer of faith. Father, your word declares this to be true and I am asking for the life of your Son and I thank you for the gift. "
I like my way better, sure God gives a grand gift, but you have to support God daily and God supports you daily so you learn to appreciate what is available and given. Hence genuine faith is the process of this support, learning to gain more gratitude of attitude.
There's a song, "I did it MY way" What you have written is true but if you think you are subject to disobey and you are only human and sin is inevitable you will not have what God is offering
Rob” Worketh is human power, believeth is faith, the process of getting divine power to do in you.
The work of faith is that you believe His word to your soul
It would be pride to take divine doings as if you were doing them.
Hence we are to remain humble as God works in you.
You must decrease so that He may increase
Rob” Hmm? To me genuine faith grows when more divine doings are achieved in your daily life. I am not sure you understand my experiences of genuine faith as EGW teaches, A T Jones teaches and the Hosea 14 teaches? You are suggesting mental assent? I am not sure? Perhaps we speak differently?
I agree it is semantics
Le"To my understanding of scripture the Opposer tries to convince you that the old nature is still alive and when a soul believes the Opposer instead of God, he resurrects the old man. Not really the old man but a familiar spirit like the witch of Endor. Necromancy!
Rob” Hmm? I can relate to some OT on this idea of yours, but more verses point to which power rules over you, rather than the details as you suggest. The old nature is still alive, refers to the faith connection in the Opposer. Is the connection dead through Christ or not?
Not sure what you are saying. The old man (nature) was crucified Rom 6:6
Le”I too use to believe something of this sort. But it is not according to scripture. You and your flesh nature are dead. Since we are saved by faith our faith will be exercised daily
Rob” Why is our faith in need of exercising if our old nature is dead?
Your faith is not a part of your old nature. "And the apostles said unto the Lord,
Increase our faith. And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you." Luke 17:5-6
If you have any doubt, even as small as a mustard seed It will prevent you from mountains of blessings
Le”We have the ability to hate evil because we are partaking of His divine nature.
ROb” OK but if our old nature is dead and we are sinless why do you partake of his divine nature, it we already have it fully by faith, as you claim?
Perhaps you can read your question, and if you think it is incoherent, could you reword it so that I can understand it. If you think it makes sense could you present it differently so that I can understand it
Rob” OK Why did Peter who had Jesus, walked on the water, but eventually took his eyes off Jesus and sank?
That was for our admonition. To learn from his mistake.
The only answer I can think of for this is
“The mind was willing but the flesh was weak”
So I do not find this dead nature thing you speak of in my experiences of Scripture?
2 Cor. 5:17
Why does the plants in good soil increase 40, 60 and 100 fold? Why not all the same?
Cause we are all different.
The roots feed on the old nature it seems.
It seems you have a vested interest in the old nature Why?
Why did Mary love much when forgiven much and Simeon little when forgiven little, if both have their natures dead in Jesus?
Your questions baffel me Rob. If a soul shows little gratitude it is because it does not see its great need
Why did Paul and Barnabas have a barny? if both their old natures are dead?
Are you referring to Paul and Peter? If so remember Jesus words to Peter, "When you're converted, strengthen the breatheren"
Why did Jesus get tired and sleepy if His old nature was dead? No evidence the fallen nature was dead, more likely Jesus lived in the old nature, but did not sin, because his genuine faith experience was different to our experiences of genuine faith. We break faith often but Jesus never broke faith.
I would be persuaded that Jesus was crucifying the old man every day until He let it die completely on the cross. Since He accomplished that the Father now gives that completed perfect work to us.
Le”The Father looks in the believers eyes and sees His Son
Rob” Isn’t this justification? What about sanctification? The process of growing in the Seed. Why is it necessary to grow in Jesus?
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1 Cor. 1:29
(Job 1:6-12 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.")