Is there more to learn about God?

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crystalrainfall

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Do you ever feel like you have learned everything there is to know about the church, and you hunger to learn more about God and the Bible? In the Adventist churches, we are not allowed to ask questions, unless the answer is one of the 28 beliefs. Like what about the prophecies in the Old Testament that Adventists do not clearly understand? Learning more is not acceptable, because every question must be framed within the agreed upon belief set. If a person goes a little beyond what we believe, they backstep and explain it with acceptable Adventist answer. It seems that something is missing. Every Sabbath school lesson rehashes the same beliefs that I have understood for years and years, and nothing is new. God must be bigger, closer, there must be more of the Holy Spirit than a small church in which I don't feel loved or understood. I heard a sermon last week about how the Bible is not one of love, but of rebuke, reproof, exhortation. It left me feeling that God did not love us, until he explained that he meant God wants to warn us to shield us from not being ready when He comes. I think what I am missing is the feeling of being close to God, especially in the church. I do not feel that the people in the church care about me, or that I am important to them. I try to reconnect with old friends from Adventist college, and none of them seem very interested in remaining friends anymore. Do you ever feel like there is more for us to grasp than our set beliefs which are never changing?
 
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theMadJW said:
I am! (And not God!)
Who was he before being sent?

1 Thess 4:16- For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God.
Click to expand...
What has that verse based NOT on Moses torah got to do with the Moses verses I showed you? Are you changing the topic?
Stick the the Moses verses I gave you, and rebuke them if you can. If you can't your theological view is already in shatters.
Moses torah must come first...

I will not entertain another topic until you rebuke / discuss the verses I gave you already? Are we clear?
Otherwise we battle confusion.

Now the hypothesis at hand is " How many strong authorities are there in Elohiym?
And using the Moses torah, I showed you two YHWH, one on earth and one in heaven, 1 + 1 = 2

Now you try to discuss / rebuke the verses I gave you, not change the topic

Shalom


Shalom my friend
 
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rob said:
What has that verse based NOT on Moses torah got to do with the Moses verses I showed you? Are you changing the topic?
Stick the the Moses verses I gave you, and rebuke them if you can. If you can't your theological view is already in shatters.
Moses torah must come first...

I will not entertain another topic until you rebuke / discuss the verses I gave you already? Are we clear?
Otherwise we battle confusion.

Now the hypothesis at hand is " How many strong authorities are there in Elohiym?
And using the Moses torah, I showed you two YHWH, one on earth and one in heaven, 1 + 1 = 2

Now you try to discuss / rebuke the verses I gave you, not change the topic

Shalom


Shalom my friend
Click to expand...
If 'the Moses Torah' has 3 Gods, a Trinity- then it is fake.
What do you want me to consider>
That the Trinity 'became flesh' long before 'God-the-Son' did!

Remember it's even stated in the NT that NO ONE has seen God......
 
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theMadJW said:
If 'the Moses Torah' has 3 Gods, a Trinity- then it is fake.
What do you want me to consider>
That the Trinity 'became flesh' long before 'God-the-Son' did!

Remember it's even stated in the NT that NO ONE has seen God......
Click to expand...
Again you are not discussing the verse I gave you? Is that too hard an ask?

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Here is the verse. Now look at the verse and answer this question:

Is this verse speaking of two YHWH's, one in heaven and one on earth, both at the same time.
I want you to consider this verse, and only this verse. OK?

I never used the term "three Gods" and I never used the term "trinity" either, so why are you pushing your bias unto me?

You other questions are off topic and not part of the Moses torah, so I will not answer all your confusions.
I will help you with one question at a time. Ok?

Now answer the question, what is this verse telling us? If you can prove I am wrong with this verse, I am happy to go over to your side, but you have to answer this verse and what this verse is saying. You do believe all verses are inspired don't you?

Now the verse does not have the term "malak" or "cherub" so forget about your angel idea OK?

Look forward to you answering the questions about this verse. Shalom
 
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rob said:
Again you are not discussing the verse I gave you? Is that too hard an ask?

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Here is the verse. Now look at the verse and answer this question:

Is this verse speaking of two YHWH's, one in heaven and one on earth, both at the same time.
I want you to consider this verse, and only this verse. OK?

I never used the term "three Gods" and I never used the term "trinity" either, so why are you pushing your bias unto me?
Click to expand...
You ARE an Adventist, aren't you? Believing in the 3 Gods?
The 3 Angels SPOKE as Yehovah. So did His son at the Exodus.
 
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theMadJW said:
You ARE an Adventist, aren't you? Believing in the 3 Gods?
The 3 Angels SPOKE as Yehovah. So did His son at the Exodus.
Click to expand...
What kind of reply is this? Why are you asking about me a sinner first?
Why can't you answer the questions?
Yes I was baptised as an Adventist in 1981 by Pastor Cole. BACK THAN I could avow all my vows to God as true.
Today modern Adventists have to support 28 fundamentals that have different doctrines than mine had in 1981, so
some doctrines have changed. Not all creed statements I agree with.

You ask do I have faith in the three Gods? I already told you I do not like the term "3 gods" there is no such thing.
Let me ask you a personal question, are you gender male or gender female? Why did Elohiym Power make mankind into gender male and gender female? Can you answer that question?
My next question is more difficult and strange for you, how many beings of mankind are there? Answer one.
Eve is not a second being, she was built (banah) not created and formed (bara) as Adam was. She came technically as a genetic clone of Adam, the exact same DNA genes. All God did was give her an expression that lacks gender male expressions.
Adam has a Y DNA expression while Eve does NOT. What does this do to the other being with mankind? It changes the personality of loving.
My next question will surprise you entirely, not a single religion agrees, not even the SDA, because few understand the Hebrew Bible correctly. How many people were in the Garden? Answer two. How many beings in the Garden? Answer one.
How many persons were in the Garden after they were married by God? Answer one.

Many SDA get around this by saying echad means compound unity. Jews argue the word echad means cardinally one. Such is the debate between various religions. Do you even study your Bible in Hebrew?

Here is another verse along you biased opinions, challenging you and others:

Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Her body is his body, they are considered the same. That makes a married couple technically cardinally one.
WHY? Not a single SDA, nor a single religion out there, not even the JEW or the JW can answer that question, but the Lord has revealed this to me because I asked for the answer.

And the answer and journey will take you hours to study and research, but I have a website that publishes our findings in the Hebrew Scriptures. And as I said before ALL doctrines MUST begin with the MOSES torah first.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The word "law" here is the Moses torah. The testimony is all the other scrolls that agree with Moses.

So to answer your question, are there "3 gods" the technical answer is no.
All the members in the Divine Family are like the components of a battery, the cathode the anode and the electrolyte, all all three members of the Godhead Battery are required to make electrical power as a single flow from this Divine Family Fountain. These are my two pennies on trying to fathom the three functional descriptors of love.

Now you will notice my personal studies are very different to the average SDA who does not know the three functions of love.
Neither does the average SDA agree to the functional differences of love, one of the modern creeds depict love as all masculine gender love, and this depiction is fuzzy based on ignorance.

Now you raise the idea that three angels spoke as YHWH. Do you have a Moses verses to back up your idea?
Such a verse has to have the Hebrew word "cherub" which is the creature kind term for an angel?

Ge 18:2 And he lift up <nasa'> his eyes <`ayin> and looked <ra'ah>, and, lo, three <shalowsh> men <'enowsh> stood <natsab> by him:

Here in my KJV Interlinear Hebrew worded Bible, I see the "three men" as two Hebrew words "shalowsh enowsh"

My Ancient Hebrew lexicon dictionary compiled by Jeff Benner says enowsh means "man" .

In Ancient Hebrew, the word means "Strong Over the Nations Securely Pressed"
Another word also meaning man means "Strong Over the Nations Actively Pressed"

The difference between these two words both translated as "man" confusing us, is one man is active, the other secure.
The secure letter often refers to the Heavenly Father who is secure.

Now because you cannot agree with anything I say, I will have to stop.
In Gen 18:1 it says YHWH appeared and later Abraham sees this as "three men" whatever that means?

There is no mention of "malak" or "cherub" so the functional descriptor of an angel is not here.
Verse 18 mentions YHWH again, and no hint of any of the other two speaking like YHWH.

The last statement you make is "so did His son in Exodus" my feeling was "What"?
DO you have a Moses verse for this?

Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Rabbi Singer depicts the "Angel" here as a "cherub" is nonsense. I thought all Jews read Hebrew, SO why is he reading a fuzzy translation ? because it suits him to mock the Christian. The word here is "malak" meaning a "messenger".

Where else do we see this messenger use?
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:
Here it says a malak YWHW, meaning a messenger of YHWH.

Now I am still waiting for your answer to the verse

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

So the way to resolve all the meanings of Moses verses is to say this:

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the "active Jesus-YHWH" rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the "secure Provider-YHWH" out of heaven;

And the verse before can be

Ex 3:2 And the "messenger of the "secure Provider-YHWH" appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:

And the verse Singer mocks

Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Messenger before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

So the Provider YHWH is sending His Active YHWH known in Moses torah as YASHA or Salvation, because the Providers Name is in Him.

YH is the Ancient Hebrew meaning "the Active Being : Behold !"
WH is the Ancient Hebrew meaning " the secure Being": Behold !"

I like Jonathon Sarfetti on describing the Son as a Collector. He is not SDA, but sometimes God blesses Jews and other people with insight and part of your job studying the Moses torah is to find inspiration from other supporters of God, not just one fold.
Jesus promises to bring us all together into one fold. Not all things in Jeff Benner I agree to, but I like His Hebrew explaining.
Mrs White is a Hebrew English translator, but I suppose you are not an Adventist are you?

Now look at the time I have spent answering your questions, how about you answer mine.

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

How many YHWH is mentioned in the verse? Answer two.
Such a term does not describe God as a being, it is a marriage term, describing their unity of function.

Now you will gather I speak over your head, there is much for you to learn, the Bible is not a simple book of verses you choose to go with and ignore the others.

Shalom
 
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rob said:
What kind of reply is this? Why are you asking about me a sinner first?
Why can't you answer the questions?
Yes I was baptised as an Adventist in 1981 by Pastor Cole. BACK THAN I could avow all my vows to God as true.
Today modern Adventists have to support 28 fundamentals that have different doctrines than mine had in 1981, so
some doctrines have changed. Not all creed statements I agree with.

You ask do I have faith in the three Gods? I already told you I do not like the term "3 gods" there is no such thing.
Let me ask you a personal question, are you gender male or gender female? Why did Elohiym Power make mankind into gender male and gender female? Can you answer that question?
My next question is more difficult and strange for you, how many beings of mankind are there? Answer one.
Eve is not a second being, she was built (banah) not created and formed (bara) as Adam was. She came technically as a genetic clone of Adam, the exact same DNA genes. All God did was give her an expression that lacks gender male expressions.
Adam has a Y DNA expression while Eve does NOT. What does this do to the other being with mankind? It changes the personality of loving.
My next question will surprise you entirely, not a single religion agrees, not even the SDA, because few understand the Hebrew Bible correctly. How many people were in the Garden? Answer two. How many beings in the Garden? Answer one.
How many persons were in the Garden after they were married by God? Answer one.

Many SDA get around this by saying echad means compound unity. Jews argue the word echad means cardinally one. Such is the debate between various religions. Do you even study your Bible in Hebrew?

Here is another verse along you biased opinions, challenging you and others:

Le 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Her body is his body, they are considered the same. That makes a married couple technically cardinally one.
WHY? Not a single SDA, nor a single religion out there, not even the JEW or the JW can answer that question, but the Lord has revealed this to me because I asked for the answer.

And the answer and journey will take you hours to study and research, but I have a website that publishes our findings in the Hebrew Scriptures. And as I said before ALL doctrines MUST begin with the MOSES torah first.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The word "law" here is the Moses torah. The testimony is all the other scrolls that agree with Moses.

So to answer your question, are there "3 gods" the technical answer is no.
All the members in the Divine Family are like the components of a battery, the cathode the anode and the electrolyte, all all three members of the Godhead Battery are required to make electrical power as a single flow from this Divine Family Fountain. These are my two pennies on trying to fathom the three functional descriptors of love.

Now you will notice my personal studies are very different to the average SDA who does not know the three functions of love.
Neither does the average SDA agree to the functional differences of love, one of the modern creeds depict love as all masculine gender love, and this depiction is fuzzy based on ignorance.

Now you raise the idea that three angels spoke as YHWH. Do you have a Moses verses to back up your idea?
Such a verse has to have the Hebrew word "cherub" which is the creature kind term for an angel?

Ge 18:2 And he lift up <nasa'> his eyes <`ayin> and looked <ra'ah>, and, lo, three <shalowsh> men <'enowsh> stood <natsab> by him:

Here in my KJV Interlinear Hebrew worded Bible, I see the "three men" as two Hebrew words "shalowsh enowsh"

My Ancient Hebrew lexicon dictionary compiled by Jeff Benner says enowsh means "man" .

In Ancient Hebrew, the word means "Strong Over the Nations Securely Pressed"
Another word also meaning man means "Strong Over the Nations Actively Pressed"

The difference between these two words both translated as "man" confusing us, is one man is active, the other secure.
The secure letter often refers to the Heavenly Father who is secure.

Now because you cannot agree with anything I say, I will have to stop.
In Gen 18:1 it says YHWH appeared and later Abraham sees this as "three men" whatever that means?

There is no mention of "malak" or "cherub" so the functional descriptor of an angel is not here.
Verse 18 mentions YHWH again, and no hint of any of the other two speaking like YHWH.

The last statement you make is "so did His son in Exodus" my feeling was "What"?
DO you have a Moses verse for this?

Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

Rabbi Singer depicts the "Angel" here as a "cherub" is nonsense. I thought all Jews read Hebrew, SO why is he reading a fuzzy translation ? because it suits him to mock the Christian. The word here is "malak" meaning a "messenger".

Where else do we see this messenger use?
Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:
Here it says a malak YWHW, meaning a messenger of YHWH.

Now I am still waiting for your answer to the verse

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

So the way to resolve all the meanings of Moses verses is to say this:

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the "active Jesus-YHWH" rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the "secure Provider-YHWH" out of heaven;

And the verse before can be

Ex 3:2 And the "messenger of the "secure Provider-YHWH" appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:

And the verse Singer mocks

Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Messenger before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

So the Provider YHWH is sending His Active YHWH known in Moses torah as YASHA or Salvation, because the Providers Name is in Him.

YH is the Ancient Hebrew meaning "the Active Being : Behold !"
WH is the Ancient Hebrew meaning " the secure Being": Behold !"

I like Jonathon Sarfetti on describing the Son as a Collector. He is not SDA, but sometimes God blesses Jews and other people with insight and part of your job studying the Moses torah is to find inspiration from other supporters of God, not just one fold.
Jesus promises to bring us all together into one fold. Not all things in Jeff Benner I agree to, but I like His Hebrew explaining.
Mrs White is a Hebrew English translator, but I suppose you are not an Adventist are you?

Now look at the time I have spent answering your questions, how about you answer mine.

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

How many YHWH is mentioned in the verse? Answer two.
Such a term does not describe God as a being, it is a marriage term, describing their unity of function.

Now you will gather I speak over your head, there is much for you to learn, the Bible is not a simple book of verses you choose to go with and ignore the others.

Shalom
Click to expand...
Such Arrogance.
You don't believe the holy spirit a PERSON?

Rather than cutting & pasting, let's try to keep it simple- point by point!
 
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My friend I am not arrogant, you have not answered my questions.
You are not even discussing with me, only bagging your own words.
I have faith the Holy Spirit is a personal being, do you?
Again you jump to another topic, from one topic to another? Why must you seek all the mysteries at once?

Rather than cutting & pasting, let's try to keep it simple- point by point!

Who says I did that? I wrote to you first hand for over an hour, no copy and paste, all for you.

let's try to keep it simple- point by point!

WHy are you not following me than and answering my questions point by point?

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

How many YHWH are there in this Moses verse?

Try answering the question. Shalom

I have been keeping it simple for you? You keep changing topics ?
 
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rob said:
My friend I am not arrogant, you have not answered my questions.
You are not even discussing with me, only bagging your own words.
I have faith the Holy Spirit is a personal being, do you?
Again you jump to another topic, from one topic to another? Why must you seek all the mysteries at once?

Rather than cutting & pasting, let's try to keep it simple- point by point!

Who says I did that? I wrote to you first hand for over an hour, no copy and paste, all for you.

let's try to keep it simple- point by point!

WHy are you not following me than and answering my questions point by point?

Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

How many YHWH are there in this Moses verse?

Try answering the question. Shalom

I have been keeping it simple for you? You keep changing topics ?
Click to expand...

I answered that!
They were ANGELS (Messengers) SPEAKING for Yehovah!
 
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theMadJW said:
I answered that!
They were ANGELS (Messengers) SPEAKING for Yehovah!
Click to expand...
Wow you replied to a verse I showed you ! Which Moses verse do you refer to though?
Can you post the verse where you claim they were all messengers speaking for YHWH?

This is a changed topic, but at least you replied - so that is a start.
 
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